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	TABLE OF CONTENTS Introduction Bob Walker, Gemstone Systems Derek Henninger, Progress Software Robert Greene, Versant Erik Meijer, Microsoft Christof Wittig, db4objects Patrick Linskey, BEA Craig Russell, Sun Microsystems Ten Years from Now? Data -- It's Scary Acronym Soup Business and Social Issues Back to the Social Question Different Viewpoints A Bigger Picture Question? A Service-Oriented Impedance Mismatch? Wrap Up

William Cook, Moderator: I wanted to comment on that too. Besides of the impedance mismatch at the technology level I certainly have experienced a lot of impedance mismatch with database people versus programming language people, there's a real cultural gap there. I think that historically we've had a big problem where the application people actually don't know a whole heck of a lot about data and have proposed to have done a whole lot of things that aren't really to take advantage of the knowledge.

And there's a similar thing on the data side. They don't necessarily have an understanding of all the issues of modularity so we haven't really gotten to the point where we are talking to each other efficiently on sort of a cultural level. Maybe I'll throw that out you can comment on it but we only have time for another question I think and I wanted to pull together: I actually have two here that I could go for.

One is: "I've heard this word model a couple of times and I've got a question about it. When will we see the HTML of data models?" I wanted to recast the question, there's a couple of other ones that have hinted at it. Which is "Maybe the service oriented architecture is going to have one impact but maybe will even have a bigger impact on this whole model driven architecture?". Is model driven development something that you guys want to talk about? And is that some way where we can get some more common ground?

Bob Walker, Gemstone Systems: I think you mentioned a couple of different terms here. One of the things you just described was the difficulty of communication between the programmer camp and the DBA organization. I think that goes all from the customer level, the end user is defining the application all the way to the architects down to the programmers down to the data. It's pervasive in an organization.

This being OOPSLA I'm sure people understand that one of the ideas behind object-oriented programming was to build a common language that could be communicated on evenly across the border in terms of business objects. Those are abstractions that will get brought down and reduced into implementation objects but I think the object oriented analysis and design techniques are what's needed to foster that conversation.

I think, given the way the increased demand on people's time has happened over the last decade, a lot of this has fallen by the wayside. And so we've fallen into a space where we are not communicating any more.

Erik Meijer, Microsoft: I must say that it's a little bit sad that the panel answered the question on model driven development because if you look at the object people here, they all talk about modeling, objects model, real world things. If you talk to database people, they talk about their tables, model real world things, customers, orders and whatever so we've been always doing a kind of model based development. Every new generation has its own interpretation of what the model is. So I think there's nothing new here, nothing has changed. You can give it new fancy names but it doesn't solve any new problems, it just gives different names to the same things and it only adds to the confusion. It creates yet another impedance mismatch.

Bob Walker, Gemstone Systems: Actually I was talking more about building a common vocabulary than a vocabulary that causes divisions and confusion.

Derek Henninger, Progress Software: Back to the previous question. You start to build models, you're going to have greater need for additional models and being able to communicate between them. Certainly, the big massive model is an impossible problem. On the other hand if you need to integrate a bunch of different sources and have them maintain consistency you need some way of abstracting that. Your DBA is not going to do it, your programmer is not going to do it in Java or XML. You need some way of abstracting that and having tools help to identify the inconsistencies.

William Cook, Moderator: I think we are out of time so I want to thank everybody for coming, thanks for the speakers and the panelists. Thank you very much!

Previous Page | 1 Introduction | 2 Bob Walker, Gemstone Systems | 3 Derek Henninger, Progress Software | 4 Robert Greene, Versant | 5 Erik Meijer, Microsoft | 6 Christof Wittig, db4objects | 7 Patrick Linskey, BEA | 8 Craig Russell, Sun Microsystems | 9 Ten Years from Now? | 10 Data -- It's Scary | 11 Acronym Soup | 12 Business and Social Issues | 13 Back to the Social Question | 14 Different Viewpoints | 15 A Bigger Picture Question? | 16 A Service-Oriented Impedance Mismatch? | 17 Wrap Up

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